Inside Ohio State football’s second June recruiting camp: Buckeye Talk podcast (2024)

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis discuss the most interesting things observed and heard at Ohio State’s second June recruiting camp.

The two discuss OSU’s two 2025 commits in five-star quarterback Tavien St. Clair and four-star tight end Nate Robert. But after they discuss a four-star recruit in the 2026 class who used an impressive day to not only earn an offer but perhaps market he beginning of a potential great story.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:20.337)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means and that’s Andrew Gillis and this is your Monday Buckeye Talk. We didn’t do day two of Ohio State’s recruiting camps last Friday. We saved that, just talked more about the official visits and we also talked about five -star 2026 defensive lineman, Jaquem Stewart, who was in attendance on that Thursday. But we’ll do a lot of that conversation, the rest of that conversation about everything else we saw today for this Monday pod. And then Ohio State will be right back out there on Tuesday and Wednesday with a couple more.

day camps this week. A couple of other guys who were there, Andrew, Tavon St. Clair, the five star quarterback in the 2025 recruiting class along with four star tight end Nate Roberts as well. And there was also another kid we’re going to get into today. We kind of hinted at him on the Friday part, a guy who, to be honest with you, I think he just might have used Joaquin Stewart to get his own offer. We’ll get into that guy as well. But I want to start with Tavon St. Clair, Andrew. It just seems like every time we see him, he looks a little bit more like a Cuts football player than the last time we saw him.

Andrew (01:14.638)

He is going through one of the bigger transformations that I have seen in my time on this beat. You know, one of the things that Stephen, I’ve mentioned this before, one of the things that Stephen told me right when I started here was, hey, you’re gonna get a lot of these kids where you’re gonna see them when they’re 15 and they’re gonna show up nine months later and you’ll be like, my God. And that’s kind of where we’re at with Tavian. I saw him play in September.

you know, he had like a really nice scramble for a touchdown. it was like a 30 yard run. He had some, you know, some, some real zip on his, on his out routes and stuff like that. Some, some things you like to see as a quarterback and you went, yeah, I get it. That makes sense. I see the Ohio state. And then it was here yesterday and. Physically, he just looks like he looks like he’s like 21. Like you, you could tell me, Hey,

This is the junior quarterback at Ohio State who’s just kind of like throwing around and having some fun. And he’s just out there to watch the high school kids and, you know, kind of help out. And I would have believed it like this is a really, really impressive kid. And I think you’ve kind of seen that in the last, you know, 12, 14 months in the rankings, right? You know, like last May he was number 334 overall prospect and.

even into the summer, you know, he was still, you know, kind of in the two hundreds and the one hundreds. And then he took a massive jump in, in the fall and he went up into the top 30, you know, kind of dip back down a little bit. And then it feels like this off season, everybody’s kind of went, yeah, this guy, I mean, he’s, he’s elite and, and you just look at him and I mean, he, I think, you know, he told me in February, I think he was like up towards like two 30,

Obviously, your playing weight is maybe a little bit different than, you know, kind of the weight when you’re putting on muscle. But, you know, I don’t know if he’s going to play at that, but that’s really impressive that he’s that big and that, you know, that kind of size. I mean, he’s a really talented, just individual throwing the ball. And then you look at his size and you’re like, yeah, everything checks off here. You know, we didn’t get to talk to him, unfortunately. His younger brother was headed out, I believe, to Youngstown State for another quarterback camp. So.

Andrew (03:32.014)

He kind of split a little bit early. He didn’t really, he didn’t really do a ton, at least not that we could see. And, you know, we did not, we didn’t get a chance to talk to him. We didn’t get a chance to kind of hear how the day went and how things have been for him. But he was, he was there and man, he looks like he could enroll now. He really, really, really does look like he could enroll now for Ohio State.

I think Ohio State fans should be really, really excited about what kind of quarterback they have in him.

Stephen Means (04:06.001)

So he did a lot before the camp, which is what can typically happen with commencing more piley rated guys. They’ll get a chance to work out with their assistant coaches and a couple of GAs before the camp starts. The conversation I want to have about Tavian is I want to project out a little bit what we think his path to being the starting quarterback looks like. And this is probably not the last time we’re going to have this conversation because Ohio State’s quarterback room is an ever.

evolving situation. It’s literally a living organism. At this point, one day you got three guys, one day you got two, and one day you got five guys like they’re going to have in 2024. So right now he’s scheduled to get here in January as an early enrollee and.

I guess at most he’s going to basically be replacing Will Howard in the room, right? Because everybody else still has eligibility left. So he’d be joining a room that potentially has Devin Brown, Julian Sand, Lincoln Keenholtz, and Aaron Nolan. I’m not saying that’s what’s going to happen. I’m saying that’s like, I mean, listen, they just held on the five quarterbacks. So like, I’m not going to rule you this out.

Andrew (05:08.366)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew (05:14.062)

Yeah, but I’m not, I don’t think that that’s going to be the trend moving forward. I don’t think that that’s going to be, you know, something that’s sustainable.

Stephen Means (05:19.345)

I don’t think there is a trend with quarterback. That’s the whole point. Like you can’t, everything is on the table. Like I said, like they had, when Justin Fields got here, their room was Justin Fields and the Misfits. And right now they have five guys in their room where you can probably make a good case that four of them could be starting quarterbacks for 85 % of college football right now. So yeah, four of them could be starters for college football. I didn’t say everybody’s gonna be on a championship level team. I said they’re gonna be starters in college football right now.

based off their talent level. One of them has already started for multiple games. The other one is Devon Brown. The other one’s second year is Lincoln Keenholz. And the other one’s five star Julian Sand, who we’ve already said could potentially be the starter as a true freshman here. So yes, very easily, there’s four quarterbacks in that room right now where you put them on most of college football roster, they can be starters. So at most, he’s just replacing Will Howard in the room.

Andrew (05:51.086)

thinking about.

Stephen Means (06:11.665)

More than likely, he’s joining a room with three or four guys, because maybe you’re expecting at least two guys from this room to not be on the roster next year, whether it’s ones off to the NFL and ones to transfer or whatever else you want to do in that situation. But either way, Tavian St. Clair is going to join a room that’s pretty crowded. And a lot of those guys are young guys who are no more than two years older than what Tavian St. Clair is going to be by the time he gets here.

So...

When are you expecting him this to realistically be a chance for Tavian Sinclair to win a starting job at Ohio State based on what’s already in the room, his background, where he’s from, his talent level, potential ceiling. When, what’s a, if you had to project right now the year where, okay, let’s see if Tavian can go win the job this year. What year would that be?

Andrew (07:07.63)

2026 is probably maybe the time when you’re like, maybe, maybe that could happen. Because here’s why I think people are going to get caught up a little bit with, well, there’s five guys in the room now. And, you know, he’s got to beat out, you know, four of them to win the starting job. I don’t think that that’s the case. Cause like, let’s just say you replace Will Howard.

And the room as of December is Devon Brown, Lincoln Kienholz, Aaron Nolan, Julian Sayen, and Tavian.

I don’t think all four of those guys are going to be around for the 2025 season. I just like eventually, eventually somebody is going to want to play. Right. I like I think we can have this conversation now about Devin Brown where it’s like, hey, you know what? He wants to stay here. He wants to see it out. He wants to try and win the job. He wants to do all these things. But is Devin the question would be.

Is Devin Brown content to sit on the, sit on the bench for his entire college career? And I think we know the answer to that question. The same can be asked of Lincoln Keenholds. The same can be asked of like, Aaron Nolan, if Julian saying kind of is what he showed earlier, right? Like. Eventually some of these guys are going to start to filter out. So you wonder like, all right, you know, if you have four next year, right? I don’t know how realistic it is for a guy like Tavian to start.

in his freshman year, especially if you have a situation where it’s Devin Brown and Julian Sand are going for the job and Tavian’s got to come in and kind of be this year’s Julian Sand to Will Howard and Devin Brown, you know, like it, or maybe Lincoln Keenholz is in that room. Like there’s a lot of kind of different permutations here. I don’t think you can, you know, take the,

Andrew (09:10.158)

I don’t think you can necessarily take the schedule out of this either. Ohio State opens against Texas next year in 2025. I mean, like that’s not a situation where you’re going to throw a first year freshman. This is his first experience of college football. Have fun facing the Texas Longhorns. That’s not a situation you want to put that kid in. So at least you’re talking late 2025 if he is kind of what you think he could be. You’re talking later into the year.

But that also would push down what we think of Julian Sane. So I think 2026 is the more realistic option. That would be Julian Sane’s third year. Tavian would have at that point a year in the program. He would be around for a little bit. Devin Brown will have been gone. Lincoln Kienholtz probably gone at that point. And if it’s Julian Sane and Tavian Sinclair fighting for that job, I think it’s going to be OK because...

then you’re looking at it and saying, you know what, even if I lose this job, I can be the starter in year three and I can have, you know, that, that path where if I have a great year, I can go to the NFL or I can stay for a fourth year. So I think 2026 is the ideal kind of, not ideal, but I think it’s the most realistic option for Tavian because 2025 there might be a fourth year quarterback on the roster who is hanging around and.

is Lincoln Kienholz developed to that point where, you know, he can be a guy who’s in that mix. by the way, you have Julian saying who, you know, for all we’re talking about, Tavian kind of being this elite level prospect, Julian’s in the same ballpark as Tavian, right? They’re both five stars. Like they’re both of that same ilk. They’re both cut from the same cloth. And if Julian is that good, wouldn’t you just expect Julian to be the starter in 2025? Like, and then Julian would.

have to do something wrong or Tavian would have to blow away the Ohio State coaching staff to take that job in 2026. So that’s the end of my monologue. I think 2026 is it because there’s just so many different things that can go wrong and with Julian saying, that’s pretty good. And we got to keep that in mind as well.

Stephen Means (11:22.961)

I think if Julian Sand didn’t exist, I would have said 2026. I just don’t. I think Julian Sand is going to be the starting quarterback the next two years, 2025 and 2026. I don’t think there’s going to be a battle in 2026 for Tavian to win. And I think this is a situation where it’s probably perfect for Tavian as well. I am still. I don’t know. We had this conversation like a month ago before Nathan left, but Tavian St. Clair is not from Texas and he’s not from California and he’s not from Florida or Georgia. He’s not from these states.

where quarterbacks are just playing year round. Now, kids from Ohio can now play seven on seven. So that helps. That’s gonna, you know, lessen that gap a little bit for Tavi and St. Clair in comparison to the other guys he’s gonna be joining this room with. I know he’s been doing some OT seven, seven stuff and some other seven on seven stuff the last couple of months here. So that’s gonna help there. But this is a kid who I still think is a very raw prospect. And he’s six four, 225 pounds.

He’s a five -star recruit from a small town in Ohio, Belfontaine High School. And so I think there’s going to be a learning curve in a way that it’s fine if he’s not ready to compete after one year in the program. It’s fine, right? The last five -star quarterback, in fact, Ohio State landed, didn’t win the job until his third year in the program. When the why? Because there was another top -fifty recruit who was a two -year starter.

named CJ Stroud. So Kyle McCord didn’t win the job until 2023, three years into the program. I think that might be the trajectory he’s taken in St. Clair is on. Because if Julian Sand is already putting himself in the position where we’re wondering if he can be the starting quarterback. Now, that can be just as much about him as it is about the talent he’s going up against. But still, it’s a true freshman quarterback at one of the four best programs in college football. And he’s already putting himself in the position to win a starting job. That matters. That to me, I am.

Something drastic would have to happen for me to think that Julian Sand at bare minimum isn’t the starter in 2025 and 2026, which leaves me with Tavi and Sinclair not taking over the job in a realistic way where he can go win it until 2027 when he’s in year three.

Andrew (13:36.686)

Yeah, the thing too that I keep coming back to is like, let’s say this year is a Will Howard, Devin Brown experience, right? And it’s those two guys and those two guys are the quarterbacks or one of them is the quarterback all year and you’re not really talking about Julian Sand. And the only time we really see Julian Sand.

is when they play Indiana the week before they play Michigan and it’s 55 to three in the fourth quarter. And you’re like, here comes Julian Sand. look, they handed it off seven times in a row. He hasn’t thrown one pass. Like I feel like that might be the trajectory that we’re on with Julian this year. Well, right. However, the only thing that I’m saying is that I, what I’m, what my point is,

Stephen Means (14:14.865)

This year? Yeah, probably, but that doesn’t mean anything for 20. CJ Shaw didn’t throw a single pass in 2020 and yet he was high as a trophy finalist in 21.

Andrew (14:29.102)

is that I don’t think you’re going to get this wealth of experience from Julian saying. So I do think that there could be something there where if Tavian shows up in, in the wind.

Stephen Means (14:39.377)

You think he’s not going to get a wealth of experience if he spends the 2025 season as a starting quarterback? Because you said you. Right, but you said.

Andrew (14:45.294)

No, I’m saying for I’m saying going into 2025 like I think Tavian might be able to make that more of a battle early. I’m not saying you should start a true freshman the first week of the year, but I think Tavian might be able to make that more of a conversation than we’re giving him credit for right now.

Stephen Means (14:59.185)

I am not considering Taven St. Clair at all to be a starting quarterback in 2025, like at all. Because even the Julian thing, it’s gotta be like, are you expecting Julian saying to be the starting quarterback at the start of the year? Yeah, no, in 2024.

Andrew (15:15.566)

In 2025? Yes, absolutely. I think he’s going to be... in 2024? Absolutely not.

Stephen Means (15:20.017)

Right, I would have the same expectation for Ta ‘Von Sinclair. When we talk about Julian being the starting quarterback, we were all talking about it in a way of, sometime in the middle of the season. Yes, right. I don’t think that idea is on the table.

Andrew (15:29.23)

What if he, what November 1st Halloween? Yeah.

Stephen Means (15:35.793)

next year with Julian saying being your starting quarterback. I think of the guys on the roster right now who has who gives you the best chance to get CJ’s your out level Justin Fields level the way house can level play eventually not saying this year, but eventually it’s definitely Julian and saying so if he’s playing at that level, I just I think Tavon St. Clair is gonna be a backup his first year and that’s perfectly fine. He’ll be in a room with Aaron Olin and Julian saying and maybe Lincoln Keen holes maybe Devon Brown, but I just think he’s going to be a backup his first two years here.

And then in year three, when Julian’s off to the NFL, if I had to project it out right now, that’s where I place Tavion, which might be perfect for a guy with his talent level, his ceiling, but also his background as a football player.

Andrew (16:19.63)

Yeah, I think that that’s totally fair. I think even when he was committed, I think if we had had this conversation last June, we would probably have said 2026, 2027 might be the year, that third or fourth year with Tabian. And that might’ve, I mean, obviously that may be a little bit based on the fact that Tabian has really gotten really good. Like Tabian has really kind of shot up the rankings and like we knew.

Stephen Means (16:45.169)

That’s where I disagree. My projection of when I think he could be the starting quarterback here has not changed from a year ago, because he’s been on this. He’s been on this path for.

Andrew (16:51.694)

That’s what I’m saying. I think we’re at 2026, 2027. I think you could have made that case a year ago.

Stephen Means (16:57.617)

No, that’s what I never would have said. Twenty six. Twenty seven is the earliest. You’re saying twenty twenty six. I’m just at seven. Like I just because of how the room was shaping out at the time, because they are known was still a five star recruit at that point. He’s from Georgia. I would have still been in a world of especially then because I hadn’t seen Aaron Nolan play football. Right. And so it’s all stars. Literally, that’s all you can go off of at that point. I still would have said.

Andrew (17:03.086)

I see what you’re saying. I see what you’re saying.

Andrew (17:10.702)

Mm -hmm.

Stephen Means (17:23.441)

Tabian’s on his way to being a five -star recruit, but he probably doesn’t become a house, a starting quarterback until 2027 in year three. Now I’m almost saying it with more certainty because Julian sand exists and he didn’t exist a year. Maybe if Julian sand didn’t exist, I think it’s interested.

because then we’re talking about a situation in 2026 where maybe you haven’t had a returning starting quarterback or maybe it’s the Kyle McCourt situation where the guy was good, but he wasn’t great in a way that you felt like quarterback isn’t, you know, it’s not, it’s something you have to at least explore. Then I’d be open to it. But when you got to, when you have the number one quarterback in the country on your roster and he’s already seemingly ahead of the curve, you’re asking the guy behind him to catch up to that.

Andrew (17:55.662)

We had to, yeah.

Stephen Means (18:12.849)

Which would mean two things. One, Taven continues on his progression, right? That’s what he can control. But what he can’t control is how quickly Julian Sand develops. So while Taven is going from level seven to level eight to level nine and level 10, Julian Sand might be at a level nine right now and still be going 11, 12, 13. You have to close the gap. And I’m not sure Taven can close that gap in a way. And I am just saying it’s fine.

It’s perfectly fine if he’s not the starter until year three, simply because that also just might be when he’s the best version of himself. Cause I keep coming back to the background, man. I keep coming back to, he’s not from a, he’s the first division one athlete, I think in like decades from his town. So there’s, there’s going to be a development curve that I think, I don’t want people to overlook, even if we think the long -term payoff might be.

And I agree, I think his upside is extremely high. I also just think the road to reaching that upside is decently long.

Andrew (19:20.43)

Yeah, that’s fair. The other thing too that I think we do need to bring up for everybody is that when you talk about quarterback recruiting, it’s very different than every other position that you’re recruiting. We’re talking about a quarterback room right now that has five guys in it. Like I said, I don’t think you can expect to have five in it every year because ideally you’re going to have that spaced out eligibility wise.

I don’t think you’re going to have, you know, you know, a couple of different, you know, overlaps or anything like that. Cause I say really, they’re not going to take two in a class unless something, you know, different happens. That’s what I’m saying. Like something, something unique would have to happen for them to take two, but that’s just kind of the way that we have to talk about this, right? Where it’s like, you know, how many quarterbacks like for that, like for that competition that we’re talking about in 2025, like, you know,

Stephen Means (19:59.985)

They’ve done it twice already.

Andrew (20:19.214)

of the four and I guess technically five, if you want to say Tavian, like how many are going to be around for the fall of 2025 of the four guys that are here in Tavian? How many of those guys are going to be around for 2026? Like you just kind of have to keep that in mind that like with this level of quarterback recruiting, I think Tavian does kind of give you the cheat card and the cheat code where it’s like, man, we were probably not worried about him leaving.

If he doesn’t see the field, we can kind of get him on a development plan and we can kind of get him in to a, maybe a 2026 track where, you know, where Julian Sann is, is, is still around, but maybe Tavian can do that. Then you have 2027. Like I,

Stephen Means (21:03.569)

You think that you keep seeing in 2020. That’s why I keep harping back on this. Do you think shaving St. Clair can take the job from you? If Julian said is everything we think he is so far, right? I’m not we’re not fighting. We’re projecting right now. We have to project. We can’t just wait two years for it to happen. We have to have a conversation about it right now. If Julian saying is who we think he is and he takes over the job in 2025 and he lives up to everything we think he is already.

Andrew (21:13.55)

We’re going to find out.

Stephen Means (21:30.001)

You realistically think that Taven St. Clair can come in here and take the job from a guy who would be going into his second year as a starting quarterback.

Andrew (21:39.182)

I think I think he could snatch that man’s chain. I think so. I think like I like I’m mapping this out and I’m like, because I understand what you’re saying about Julian saying, but I also know what people are saying about Tavian St. Clair. And that I understand the development curve. I think your development curve is correct. I think your development curve is a real is a realistic point. But like we could be talking about go ahead.

Stephen Means (21:43.153)

Why?

Stephen Means (21:56.209)

Okay, put the development right right put that to the side for a second.

So when I say Julian Sand lives up to everything we think he is, we’re talking about a guy who was a five -star recruit in the number one quarterback in the country, which would mean, and he’s playing at Ohio State, which would mean everything he think he is means he’s gonna be a Heisman Trophy finalist and the best quarterback in the Big Ten, and he’s going to be entering his second year as a starting quarterback as one of the three best quarterbacks in college football, bar none.

Andrew (22:13.198)

Indeed.

Stephen Means (22:31.345)

That’s the description. The description, it would be the same description. CJ Stroud came into 2022 with the same description that Justin Fields came into 2020 with the same description. Dwayne Haskins would have come into 2019 with had he not decided to go pro. That’s what we’re talking about. That guy. That’s who Tavian St. Clair has taken the job from. You think that’s a realistic possibility.

Andrew (22:54.286)

Yes, because I think this is now this is a good problem to have for Ohio State, but I think you might just have two of the same guy. You might just have now that could lead you to play the older guy because he’s here. He’s only got one year left. You’re like I said, you’re not worried about you’re not worried about Tavian transferring, but.

Stephen Means (23:10.097)

Okay. But what does that look like? How good this tape? Okay, let’s let’s let’s live in this hypothetical that description. How let’s see, let’s just let’s put Tavian St. Clair as he is right now. Let’s say he was joining this team in 2023 2022. Right. This prospect right here in 2022 with CJ Stroud coming back. What does that look like Tavian St. Clair taking the job from CJ Stroud? Because that’s what we’re talking. That’s what I’m saying here. I’m you. We’re having a conversation about can I can Tavian St. Clair?

in this hypothetical world that we’ve somehow stumbled into is in a situation where he’s taking the job from one of the three best quarterbacks in college football, which is what we’re expecting Julian Sand to eventually turn into as a two -year starter as Ohio State. So what does that actually look like for Tavey and St. Clair, for anybody to take the job from someone who was universally viewed as one of the three best quarterbacks in college football?

Andrew (24:02.958)

Well, I think there’s two things. Number one, Tavian also has to fit that bill. I think that’s pretty clear. Now, and I don’t think, I think that that’s actually probably maybe the most likely scenario of this situation where Tavian is just that good and Tavian is in that same ballpark. Because for as much as we can say that, hey, here’s what Julian’s saying is, is a prospect. And here’s what Julian’s saying is projecting out to be. And here’s what the rankings say. Here’s what other people say.

We’ve seen, we have eyes, Steven. We saw how good he looked during spring practice and some of the throws that he made, were there a lot to work on? Yeah. I think the spring game emphasized that there were a lot of things to work on, but you saw enough there where you’re like, wow, this is pretty good. But you also need to be in that kind of realm. I think with Tavian, right? I think you also need to kind of have that mentality with Tavian where it’s man, he just might be that good too. And when you map out the rankings and everything like that, that’s what.

the rankings bear out as well, that you might just have two of the same, not, I’m not comparing them as like throw style or anything like that, but you get what I’m saying. I’m saying you might just have two of the same quality quarterbacks where what have Julian? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What have Julian saying is that top five, top 10 level quarterback? Okay. Well, what if Tavian is too? So I think that that’s the first thing. The second thing is you need to see a special trait from Tavian.

that is more special than what Julian can give you. I don’t know what that is. We need to see Tavian get to college. We need to see Julian play, but it has to be something where it’s, man, both of these guys are really good. Both of these guys are going to end up in the NFL. Both of these guys are going to end up cashing a pretty, pretty large check from whatever first round team picks them. It has to be that conversation, but then it has to be, okay, what does Tavian do?

that is so unique that Julian can’t do and their unique trait. One of the first conversations I ever heard showing up on this beat with Ryan Day was special traits and what what special trait did Justin Fields have and what special trait did Wayne Haskins have and CJ Stroud and all these other quarter and okay well now it’s Kyle McCord and Devin Brown which what do they got? What’s that special trait? Okay well that special trait for Tavian has to exceed Julian’s saying so I think it’s those two things. Number one,

Andrew (26:26.958)

Both of them, they both live up to kind of what they are. I think that that’s probably pretty likely or the most likely scenario. I should say maybe not pretty likely, but the most likely scenario that both of them are just first round level quarterbacks. And then the second thing is what special traits to saving have and how does that exceed Julie?

Stephen Means (26:50.417)

I think that’s a really high expectation for somebody that hasn’t done anything in college football. I just...

Andrew (26:55.438)

Julian Sane really hasn’t done anything in college football either. He went through his spring practice and he looked good, but that’s about it.

Stephen Means (27:02.129)

What I am saying is you’re presenting a scenario of like, yes, Julian Sands won the three best quarterbacks in college football. Well, what if Tavion Sinclair is too? Well, then why would you bench the one of the three best quarterbacks in college football? That makes no, I think the only way that happens is if we have a situation like what you had in Oklahoma with Spencer Rattler and Caleb Williams, where Spencer Rattler is not what we thought he was. That’s the only way I think that happens. Other than that, I just, that’s.

And like I said, in any other situation, if Julian, if Julian, if Nick Saban doesn’t retire and Julian Sand doesn’t hop in the portal, I’m with you. Tavian Sinclair would be is going to probably be on a trajectory to be good enough to at least compete to be the starter in 2026. I just don’t think realistically that’s a situation that’s available if Julian Sand is who we think he is going to be, because that would make zero sense to bench him for.

You’re asking Ryan Day to bench experience that’s also elite for maybe elite at that point. This is all hypothetical, by the way. I mean, this is recruiting. A lot of it’s hypothetical anyway. We’re talking about a kid who’s already committed and isn’t going anywhere unless something universally crazy happens. But I just forget the background and all that stuff. It’s just Ohio State’s going to have a good problem. And that good problem is an elite prospect might not be able to get on the field until

his third year in the program because you have another elite prospect already started. So like, I just, could he? Sure. Is it realistic? Probably not. And so all of this is going to depend on if Julian Sand is what we think he is. And if this really goes wonky and Julian Sand ends up being the starter in 2024, then Tavis definitely not taking the job for him. Cause then you’re talking about, you’re talking about a three year starter at that point. It’s.

It’s almost like asking what could DJ Uyengalaye have done to take the job from Trevor Lawrence, right? And it’s like, nothing. He was just gonna wait his turn. Nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing. And that’s fine. And now granted, DJ Uyengalaye turned out he wasn’t quite that what people thought he was, but.

Andrew (29:07.454)

Yeah. Nothing.

Andrew (29:16.174)

Yeah, you would need Julian Sand to DJ you and then, yeah.

Stephen Means (29:19.697)

But but but but you know, during that year, he looked pretty good as true freshman when he stepped in for Trevor Lawrence for a few times. OK, that went a lot longer and that became a hypothetical.

Andrew (29:25.55)

sure. Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about this as we were talking about this. And I wouldn’t say arguing. We’re not arguing. We’re debating. And no, we’re debating. Well, I was I was gonna say our texts are gonna go crazy about that. Yeah, pick your fighter.

Stephen Means (29:33.137)

We were arguing. It was an argument. It was an argument guys. Don’t, don’t let it. Sign up for the text 614 -350 -3315. Pick your side. Who sounds more crazier in that argument? We’re going to take a quick break real quick and come back. And we’re going to wrap up with a couple other things that were interesting on Thursday’s camp last week here on Buckeye.

And we’re back here on Book I Talk where we have 30 minute arguments about five star quarterbacks, because that’s the world Ohio State lives in now. They just get five star quarterbacks all the time. Get the text 614 -353 -3315. Nate Roberts was also there. We didn’t get a chance to talk with him either. He kind of was in and out. We do know he’s on an unofficial this week, though, and we’ll probably get more into Nate Roberts in the future pods here as he takes his official visit. But I do think it’s at least good to touch on.

Andrew, it seems like this kid’s locked in and it’s almost we don’t need to worry about him. The fact that he’s going to be on an official visit in like two weeks and he decided to show up not only to come for an unofficial visit, but to also go through a camp with Keenan Bailey.

Andrew (30:40.398)

Yeah, I mean, this is a guy that Ohio State was really high on. They were really, really interested in him for a very long time. You know, I think, you know, you got kind of a second chance at life too, you know, with Nate Roberts, because it felt like he was kind of kicking you down the road. It felt like this recruitment was maybe dragging out a little bit and when recruitments drag out a little bit, that’s a worry. You know, he committed to Notre Dame last summer, almost a year ago. He decommitted like two or three months after that.

you know, I think Notre Dame was talking about taking a second tight end. And that was something that, that was not kind of in his wheelhouse and.

Stephen Means (31:16.849)

Instead, he’s choosing to join a room that already has like seven tight ends in it.

Andrew (31:20.814)

Yeah, so he’s so it but what I what I’m saying is it felt like with Nate Roberts where it was like, alright, Ohio State’s in the mix. Like I remember in the football season, like like October, November, it was, yeah, Nate Roberts going to Ohio State. Yeah, he’s coming to Ohio State. And then we didn’t hear anything for months. And then on spring game, morning and spring game, during my parking fiasco, I’m walking up to the stadium and Nate Roberts commits. So

It took a while, but you finally get him. And I think it’s going to be well worth the wait for Ohio State because, you know, this was a guy that, you know, really had some, some big time offers and really was kind of getting looked at by every program in the country. So, you know, Ohio State really likes Nate Roberts. And, you know, I think that there’s good reason to, I think we saw yesterday, Steven, there were a lot of tight ends and they all kind of fit the same kind of body type, all kind of the same prototype. And,

You know, one of the things with Nate Roberts is that I think that there’s some weight to gain. I think you and I both saw that, but he’s a junior in high school. He’s about to be a senior in high school. There is time for this. There is time to add that weight, but I mean, he’s the number one 32 overall players who record this, the number six tight end in the country. You know, Ohio state likes him. I think Tavian is really high on him. Tavian was talking to me in the fall, and in the winter, like, you know, I’m texting Nate Roberts. I’m trying to get him in this class. Like,

Nate Roberts is a really, really solid ad for this team and for this program. So I think I think Ohio State likes where they’re at. And yeah, I think it says pretty good things that, you know, that Nate was willing to come out for an unofficial visit and then go back in a week or two, whatever it is for his official.

Stephen Means (33:04.145)

He’ll be back at the end of the month in what’s probably the biggest weekend of the summer for Ohio State. They’ve got a couple of five stars, including Davis Sanders Jr. So we’ll get into that more when that week comes up. Nate Roberts, the first, he’ll be the first player Ohio State signed from Oklahoma since Josh Proctor in 2018. So yeah, they’re not, yeah, getting back into there. Okay, last guy we got, we have to talk about this guy because Thursday was all about J ‘Keem Stewart.

Andrew (33:32.75)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (33:32.753)

right, the number two player in the top defensive lineman in the 2026 recruiting class. But it was like, okay, is there anybody here on the offensive line? So when they do go with competitive one on ones, we can get a real understanding of how good he is. Because if he’s just going up against a bunch of, you know, not highly rated guys, it’s kind of hard because he’s just going to dominate everybody. And it’s not going to look, you’re not going to get a true evaluation of him. The good thing was there was a top 60 recruit.

in the 2026 class, also in attendance by the name Darius Gray, the number 56 player, the number three interior offensive lineman. Andrew, you talked with him about how the camp went and his just relationship with Ohio State. I know he did get an offer after Thursday. What did he have to say about what, why did he come camp on Thursday?

Andrew (34:23.375)

Well, yeah, I mean, one of the reasons he wanted to come camp is because it was Ohio State. You know, he’s from Richmond, Virginia, goes to St. Christopher School out there. You know, he wanted to come camp at Ohio State and, you know, kind of see everything that was going on and compete against the best, he said, you know, and competition was something that he was really kind of focused on. And, you know, it was very funny. I was doing the interview with another writer and it was just he and I, and we were talking, we asked him a question.

And he goes, yeah, you know, star ratings don’t really matter. You know, I just try to play my best ball. Very, a very lineman answer. You know, he’s very, I really, I really enjoyed talking to him. Very, very nice kid. Very, very polite kid. You know, really mature. and you know, we’re talking to him and you know, all stars don’t matter. And, you know, I just try to focus on my own game and this and that and the other. And then we asked him, I think it was, I, you know, I asked him.

So, J ‘Kim Stewart was here and he goes, yeah. So, I know I said stars don’t matter, but I knew who he was and I knew he was here. And I thought that that was a really good glimpse into who this guy was, where it was, you know, very kind, very mild -mannered off the field. But you watched him against J ‘Kim Stewart and you were really impressed. I tweeted this video out. Like, he had the video from a couple of different clips that he had against J ‘Kim. Very impressive. Like, and very impressive, I mean,

Jaquim, I think the first rep just picked up a right tackle and just drove him into the ground. And he’s the number two overall player in the number one defensive lineman in the 2026 class. He is somebody that could reclassify to 2025 and nobody’s going to bat an eye physically. Like this guy is that mature and that ready to go to play college football. And Darius Gray, I thought held his own. I think, you know, there were a couple of us in that like little corner of the end zone where we were standing.

And Bill Landis walked by me and he goes, do you know who that kid is? That kid in the kid who just like stonewalled J ‘Kim. And I was like, no, I’m trying to figure it out. Because, you know, the thing is these kids don’t have numbers or like names on the back of their jerseys. So like a lot of times, like like Darius is wearing a plain white t -shirt and black shorts yesterday. So we’re trying to figure out like who he is. And we finally figured it out that this guy was, you know, a top 60 recruit. this is who we’re talking about.

Andrew (36:45.902)

And we were really impressed by him and the Ohio state staff was really impressed by him. Obviously, you know, they took him back. They put him through a little bit of a side workout. they took him back into the, into like the team meeting rooms. He got an offer. That was a big deal. And it was really impressive. And, you know, you don’t want to say that he used to Keem Stewart to get an offer because he was a top 60 player. And. You know, he, the talent level indicates that he could get an offer like in the last couple of weeks.

last couple of months, he’s gotten an offer from, from Notre Dame, from, Georgia, from USC, from Clemson. Like this is not a player who just showed up and nobody really knew who he was, but this was a player who showed up and did really well against somebody who nobody else could block. And that’s what happens. You know, he did really well and we were very impressed by him. So Ohio state’s viewing him as a guard or a center. He said he would love to get back.

to Ohio State at some point in the next couple of months. Would love to see a game here. But this is a relationship that’s just now building. You know, he said that, you know, Justin Fry and, you know, the Ohio State staff, the interest hadn’t really been super intensive, super extensive as the as the process has kind of gone along, you know, through his sophom*ore year. But he said that it really picked up yesterday. And I think we have a good reason why. And I think everybody else saw why. So, yeah, very impressive. And I think when you look at Darius Gray, there’s a guy that

At the very least, it’s a name to know going into the 2026 season, or 2024 season.

Stephen Means (38:22.385)

So I think he came during the spring at one point. So he’s been here before, but you’re not going to say he used to keep Stewart to get an offer. I’m going to say he used to came Stewart to get an offer. He didn’t purposely use your came Stewart. It’s not like he read somewhere. is your team Stewart’s going up to Ohio State on Thursday, June 36. So I’m going to go up to Ohio State on Thursday, June 6 as well. That’s not how that worked out. But as you just pointed out, he saw a player that he knew.

Andrew (38:31.438)

Hehehehe

Stephen Means (38:51.505)

and he knows how people talk about him. And he saw an opportunity to measure himself up. But also, make a statement. I think they went up against each other like six or seven times, and I think Darius won like five or six of them. This was not a situation where it was just like, a healthy back and forth. Man, you held your own against a guy who looks like he might be a generational prospect. No, no, no, no, no. You won. You dominated him.

So he earned an offer because of that. You were talking about it, how the, you just said it. They weren’t really, the interest wasn’t all the way there yet. I think you mentioned it to me on Thursday that he really wasn’t even talking to Justin Fry that much. It was more the support staff guys he was talking to. Well, guess who he was talking to after Thursday? He was talking to Justin Fry. I’m sure he’s going to be talking to him right now. I think that’s awesome. We talked about that when we previewed the camps, right? Who’s going to show up here and kind of make a statement. Who’s going to do the -

Andrew (39:45.87)

Who’s the guy that we don’t know? And he was one of the guys that we don’t know.

Stephen Means (39:47.665)

Who’s the guy we don’t know? Or even if you do know him, you just know a little, you know enough about his story that he doesn’t have an offer yet. And he’s coming here today to tell you to offer him not with his words, but what he does when Tim Hinton goes winner loser and it’s time to compete. Who is going to do that? Who’s going to do what Jermaine Matthews did two years ago and there is great in it. And he had the perfect stage for it because.

We all looked at J ‘Keem Stewart and said, that’s what a first rounder at 17 years old looks like. That’s what it looks like. That guy’s gonna be a first rounder I’ll pick one day. Nobody was talking about Darius Gray like that when he got there. But by the time we left the camp, yeah, of course, everybody was still talking about J ‘Keem Stewart and is he gonna reclassify and all that stuff. But guess who else was the topic of conversation? Darius Gray! The number 56 player, number two interior offensive lineman, that matter. He maximized his camp experience.

And now it’s going, I think that’s a cool story. And if he ends up at Ohio state, it’s an even cooler story. When we look back on this, maybe he’s the starting right guard in 2028, right? Or 2029 or something like that. These kids are 2026 is crazy. 2030. I don’t know. He’s a starting right guard at Ohio state one day. We can tell the. No, it’s not, but we can tell the story, especially what let’s let’s.

Andrew (41:05.39)

2030′s not a real year. Don’t worry about it.

Stephen Means (41:12.689)

We’re in a hypothetical world today. Let’s let’s live there. What if Darius Gray and Joaquin Stewart both end up at Ohio State, which we talked about on Thursday? Is we don’t think it’s an unrealistic thing for Joaquin Stewart to end up here. In fact, I think it’s probably here USC or LSU where things stand right now. That’s probably the top of the list. And so it’s not crazy to think that they could pull that kid out of LSU out of Louisiana. And what if Darius Gray ends up here one day and then one day?

They’re both juniors here and we’re at a bowl site and we’re going, hey, you guys remember when you went up against each other at that camp all those years ago? And Jakeem’s like, yeah, man, I learned a lot of respect for that guy that day. I didn’t really know who he was before that day, but he really gave me fits that day. And Daris is like, yeah, that day changed my life. That’s the day that led me on the path I’m on right now. That’s cool stuff. And so now Ohio State’s got another potential target in the 2026 offensive line class. And we’re talking about, we’re looking for top 100 recruits.

who are not from Ohio, could Darius Gray one day fit that? His story of whether that answer is yes or no started on Thursday, and I think that’s a pretty cool thing.

Andrew (42:19.202)

Yeah. So I think that’s a, I mean, that’s like a perfect, like big 10 network August preview where they’re D where they’re D yeah. The journey. Yeah. And then it’s just, you know, Ohio States play in Iowa at noon or, you know, future big 10 opponent Florida state. They’re playing them at noon on big noon kickoff or something. And then it’s, you know, you have Gus Johnson and Joel Klatt and they’re detailing like

Stephen Means (42:26.961)

The journey? Yeah, come on, man.

Andrew (42:48.014)

Florida State’s defensive liners like don’t you know Darius Gray though, he’s got some experience detailing this. Darius Gray wasn’t even really in consideration for Ohio State and Ohio State wasn’t in consideration for him. And then he shows up and you’re gonna have to watch him today. You know, it’s going through the line. It’s you know, here are the five offensive linemen, they list the starters and yeah, it’s that’s 100 % what’s gonna happen.

Right. It’s going to be the big 10 network story in August and that everybody’s going to talk about it. there’s, it’s going to be a quick little like 20 second hit before this, you know, from one snap to another where the color commentator for whatever game is going to be like, here’s Darius Gray and at left guard. And here’s why he’s at left guard for Ohio state and not for South Carolina or not for, you know, one of the other schools. It was really kind of interested in.

Stephen Means (43:40.945)

Origin stories, man. That’s what these camps are all about. Nick Murphy, who works in the recruiting department for Ohio, say he’s been tweeting a lot lately. This is a club campaign, they’re already offering. They sent out a bunch of offers to kids over the first two camps of the season. I’m sure many more will go out. Get the text 614 -350 -3315. Andrew’s going to be trying to talk with all these kids. And so far he’s talked with a few of them and got some interesting conversations for some of that stuff. Some of those stories are already up on the site at cleveland .com slash OSU. But get the text 614 -350 -3315. Two more camps this week.

there’s a seven on seven tournament where

It’s going to be interesting to see who shows up because there’s a lot of highly rated recruits who are out doing OT seven stuff this week. And then the elite 11 is right around the corner. And we’ll be previewing that as well, because I think that’s interesting. Ohio State has another chance to continue to add to its elite 11 legacy here. And they’ve had a couple of guys go through that and they didn’t have a guy last year. Can they get back on that board in twenty twenty four for this summer? But it’s six one four three five three one five. That’ll wrap up this Monday. For Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means. And that was Buck I Talk.

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